Note: Can I Say This at Church is produced for audio listening. If able, I strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which has inflection, emotion, sarcasm where applicable, and emphasis for points that may not come across well in written word. This transcript is generated using a combination of my ears and software, and may contain errors. Please check the episode for clarity before quoting in print.
Christian 0:00
I don't think it's necessarily prideful to feel like you want to reclaim that. Because really, it's kind of the antithesis of an egocentric way of approaching Scripture. Because what we often do is we sit down and we pull a text out of context, and we say what's in this for me? Because we don't understand the bigger story. Right. And that's part of what the lectionary does. It gives you an Old Testament text, a Psalm, a gospel text, and an epistle or a letter attributed to Paul, although he probably didn't write them all, and showing you a common theme throughout them, or how they're referencing the same event, or person or place. And a lot of times if we just read one out of context, we don't see those connections.
And so since we don't see the bigger connections, we refer it back to ourself and make it a self help manual. And if the Bible says anything, I think it says it's not all about you, especially the Gospel. So if you're doing that you're kind of running counter to the ethos of the Bible to begin with, so we have to be given that thing that makes us feel like we're part of something bigger and I think that's actually very important part of the Christian experience or the Gospel emphasis.
Seth Price 1:38
2019…who would have thought we'd still be here last year was so crazy. I mean, from politics, to earthquakes, to fires, to everything. It is a good thing my Escala.., topical escuela…Oh my God, my end times views are not what they used to be or I might be Chicken Little today.
What does the Bible mean for you? How should you read it weekly; maybe what the heck is the lectionary? There are so many things about my faith that I know so little about the lectionary being one, year A, B and C being two. And oftentimes context for the scriptures that I read being three.
Today's guest is Christian Piatt. He's written a book. This is year, the second year that he's done it. Year C, he started with Year B on surviving the Bible for 2019. And the breakdown of reading the text throughout the year is done a bit differently. I find it refreshing to have a fresh set of eyes and new life breathed into text for me that sometimes gets stale. So I hope that you enjoy the conversation. Let's roll the tape on this Christmas Eve recorded conversation with Christian Piatt.
Seth Price 3:10
Christian Piatt, thank you so much for coming on to the Can I Say This At Church podcast on this beautiful Christmas Eve morning at recording (and a) big thank you to both your wife and your family for allowing you to get away and also to mine upstairs if you're listening hun, I love you. But Welcome to the show.
Christian 3:27
Thank you. I appreciate you having me on man. Sorry. It's taken a while for us to get it worked out.
Seth Price 3:31
You know what it's fine. It's life. But I really wanted to make sure that I talked to you before 2019 considering the book that we're talking about, or the devotion(al) that we're talking about is for 2019. And so I thought that that would definitely, that would definitely be helpful. Before we get into that content, though. I always like to start for first time listeners of anyone that's never been on the show before a bit about you. And so can you give me just a handful of minutes. The story of what makes Christian Christian kind of, you know, the faith that you started in as a child and all the way Up to whatever you happen to practice now.
Christian 4:06
Sure, well, I was raised Southern Baptists in Texas, and my dad was not a church person at all. So I just went with my mom, partly because I was mama's boy, and partly because she would bribe me with doughnuts. So I would go and it was just a part of my upbringing coming up, and it was good. You know, I went to VBS and Sunday school and camps in the summertime, whatever, you know, I did all that stuff. But when I started getting to a point, I was in this school where they really taught us critical thinking, rhetoric, debate and so I started kind of analyzing things in a different way. And I started looking at these, this notion that this was the only place in my life, in church, where I was supposed to just believe everything, literally whether it made sense or not, and not ask questions.
And I thought, well, that doesn't make sense. The rest of the world doesn't work that way. Why does it work that way they here? And so I would ask some questions anyway. And long story short, I got thrown out at age 17.
Seth Price 5:20
…of the school or the church?
Christian 5:21
The church.
Yeah, I get thrown out of the church. My youth minister literally threw a Bible at me and invited me not to come back. He was armed with the Word, and in a manner speaking, I guess. I left religion for 10 years and didn't look back. In fact, you know, I've been told that not only was I actually worse than an atheist, because not only did I not believe God correctly, believe in God correctly but that I was dragging other people down with my questions and doubts, huh? So it was best that I didn't toxify the water anymore. I guess I was brackish as the Bible would say.
And so I was poisoning the well, and so I had to get out. And so I did for 10 years, I just decided that I was anything but Christian, you know, ABC. And then I met Amy, my wife, who if you listen to the homebrew culture cast, she's my co host, she's a pastor. And at the time, she was a regional youth minister for Christian church Disciples of Christ. And I was like, well, that's gonna be awkward since I'm not a Christian or anything, I'm not really sure how I feel about this God thing. And I was still very angry and bitter, you know about the whole religion stuff. But through a various series of events that were very revelatory and kind of broke me open in a number of ways that were very unexpected. Over that next year, I gave it a try again. And over time, I really came to realize that those scars were my story now. And it's not that they exclusively define me. But those war wounds that I had, had helped change the course of my story in a way that made it uniquely mine. And I realized (that) there was an entire tribe of people out there who had gone through much the same thing.
And so I kind of found my voice in that way as well speaking to the questioning, the disaffected, the skeptical, the marginalized, the “others”, within and beyond organized religion, so that's kind of where I've stayed ever since.
Seth Price 7:56
To play on that metaphor. You had of brackish water, I would I would echo a lot of those sentiments, especially I'm also from Texas actually grew up in Midland was born in Odessa. And I haven't thought about it until just now. But if that type of faith is a brackish kind of water, it's a lot like the Dead Sea that everyone says it's gonna kill you, you know, this is gonna be awful. But we all just float on the surface. And then while we're up here, let's talk about things. Let's get personal. Let's talk about it because nobody's sinking, which actually come to think of it. I think that's what grace looks like. But that's an entire…that's an entirely different topic.
Christian 8:30
New sermon series!
Seth Price 8:32
Yeah, there we go.
Christian 8:33
Yeah, you're welcome.
Seth Price 8:34
You can take that one. I'm no preacher.
Christian 8:35
(Laughs) Neither am I.
Seth Price 8:37
I think I'd be an awful teacher because I like sarcasm too much and I don't know, you can get away with that in a youth group, but maybe not at a church-or maybe you can maybe that's the church that the world needs.
Christian 8:52
Exactly
Seth Price 8:54
Do you still have that Bible; the one that was thrown at you?
Christian 8:55
No, no! I didn't really want to have anything to do with it. It was his, you know, a big floppy King James Bible with the you know, the annotations and everything.
Seth Price 9:05
I was just thinking it would be great…so you know, package it up nice ribbons and just mail it to him. Yeah, just as a “Hey, I actually do still like this book. Here's a copy of this devotion that I've written about it. And then here's the one that inspired it. So I appreciate you, you know, Mister youth pastor ‘y’or whatever.”
Christian 9:25
That's right. Yeah, no, yeah, that would actually be very, very fitting. And you know, I am actually to a point of being grateful for the story and the course it is taken hard as it was at times. I don't believe that God made this happen to me. I don't believe that kind of shit. But I do believe that God gives us the capacity to find beauty in the midst of the of the garbage, and not that Evangelical Church is garbage by any means, but it was a pretty shitty situation. And so to be able to come out of that, and for life and beauty to emerge from it over time is very-that's good news. You know, that's Gospel to me. And so I'm grateful for the the course of things as they've taken themselves.
Seth Price 10:19
A couple questions that I've asked everyone from Texas because I have an inherent bias. And so the first question, I don't know, where are you at in Texas?
Christian 10:27
Now we're in Fort Worth, I grew up in Dallas, I was in Austin for a little while as well.
Seth Price 10:31
I know that both of those cities there's big cities this will work for and so when I left Texas In and Out Burger was just a California thing. And the last time I went home, which was March, I went to Dallas, actually to visit some family. And there was an In and Out Burger there and so my question is, which is the correct burger? Is it In n Out or is it What-a-Burger?
Christian 10:53
Well, I mean, that depends. Do you go with natives or imports because Whataburger I think has been here since the beginning. All I can tell you is I've been to a few Whataburger’s since I've been back and have not been to an In-n-Out. That's all I'm gonna say on that.
Seth Price 11:11
I don't know that I would go to a Whataburger is it's entirely too greasy. But I feel like you're insulting my family. If you say that In-n-Out burger’s better.
Christian 11:23
Yeah, I mean, that could be your job. You can do that since you're from Texas. But I can't and you know what, there's something to be said for a burger animal style.
Seth Price 11:36
Christian, you've written a book, which is why I had you on entitled, I believe Surviving the Bible. Correct? So two questions about it. A: Why does it matter that I survived the Bible? Is it possible to read it in such a way that I can't survive it and be what the heck is year C, I have no idea what that is. And I noticed that this one says you know your see your calendar. See I don't even know what that means.
Christian 12:03
Well, um, I feel like I kind of almost literally survived the Bible. You know, after having ducks, he threw it in my head man he'll I could call. It's a big whopping King James. So I survived. But what I mean by that is like, a lot of us. If you ever decide you're going to start reading the Bible, you start in Genesis, and by the time you get to Leviticus or something like that, you know, or even numbers, you're you're just dead in the water. You just don't ever make it. And you know, it's because we don't really know, ways to access the Bible. The Bible wasn't written that way so why don't we read it that way? Which makes intuitive sense to people but they don't know how to access it.
So, you know, I want to give them plain English accessible ways to look at this that don't echo the cliches of devotionals past. That don't just live on that surface as you were talking about. And and that actually give you a road-map if you want to understand how you can also be a questioning person of faith or a skeptic or, you know, someone who's just kind of living on the outskirts of them and toeing the line, you know, identity of mainline of, you know, the status quo of Christianity, and there's still something there. of substance. So it's a way to survive getting through the whole Bible and actually being made better for it and I don't mean that in a Joel Olsteen kinda “What’s in the Bible for me?” kind of way at all. But we do all, I think, aspire to be better people. Since, for most of us the Bible is, is a big part of our cultural identity and story, we should probably understand it, even if we know that the way it was taught to us isn't really on a gut level, what we believe that God had intended.
So, there's that for survive in the Bible. And as far as not surviving it, what I would say is just giving up at exceeding the meaning that you've been given by someone else as to what it means and not being able to decide for yourself what it means. That to me is not surviving the Bible. That's an cessation of your power of your own authority in engaging the text to someone else, which is, you know, for some people, they're very comfortable with that for me, I want to know how to engage it on my own in my own way in my own life, my own terms. That's kind of what the Protestant Reformation was about. It was about breaking us away from that intercessory way of engaging the Bible like someone else has to tell us what it means.
No, they don't! So for the last 500 years, we've been encouraged to do that. And then in some great, weird ways, more recently, we're like, actually, I'm going to tell you what this means, again, because this is getting a little too far afield. And I disagree with that. I think we should all engage in on our own for sure, or in small communities. As far as what Year C is there's this the 50 cent, theology word for it. The churchy word for it is part of the lectionary. The lectionary is a three year cycle that goes through the bulk of the Bible over over those hundred and 56 Sundays, or weeks in three years.
So you've got your A, B and C and I started it would be just because that's when the contract with Fortress Press started. So We'll go year B or C and then Year A. So it really doesn't matter. You don't have to start with A, obviously. You can just jump in any time and it's not a linear thing like you're trying to go from A to Z. That's one of the misnomers I think of our contemporary Western culture, that everything is linear and you're starting at the beginning and you're getting to the end.
Because what happens with the lectionary, once you get to the end of Year C, is you start back at A again, it's a cyclical experience of life, which I think is much more fitting to the way the universe works.
Seth Price 17:00
Are they the same texts? So like, next year, Year A, is that the same thing as 2017? Is that is that is that math right? I think that's right.
Christian 17:12
Yeah, by and large, they're gonna be similar. It may change a bit from year to year because the calendars don't quite work the same. But, but yeah, you know is like Lent and Advent and things like that those are part of the liturgical calendar, which the lectionary follows. So you've got Pentecost, you got Advent, you got Lent, you got epiphany and all these things a lot of people don't even know really what all that shit means. So that's part of the whole idea is demystifying all this fancy book stuff that has intimidated you out of identifying with Scripture and sort of embracing the Gospel for yourself.
Seth Price 17:55
I think so many people have no idea what epiphany and well they all know what Pentecost is, they all know what Easter is, and they all know what Christmas ss, but I know, growing up, Advent was a thing that until the last two or three years honestly wasn't a thing to me, it was just whatever it is what it is. I'm not, I'm not dealing with all of this. Which I feel like I was cheated out of a portion of my spirituality that I'll never be able to recuperate from or get back. I feel like I'm constantly playing catch up with some of the inner work that I should have been called to do 10 years ago, that I'm just starting to do now.
Maybe that's prideful. I don't know, maybe that's the wrong way to look at it. But I do know that that's how I currently feel about it.
Christian 18:32
Well, yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying. Because yeah, I knew what Advent was because we put the wreath up, but we didn't really talk about it.
Seth Price 18:38
I just want the pieces of chocolate behind that calendar thing-I was really interested in that.
Christian 18:43
That's what it was all about right! And it was the torturous month before Christmas. But we didn't really consider what you know that Advent is a time of waiting and that epiphany is a time of enlightenment and coming to together and that Pentecost is a time of Revelation and dissipating back again, you know, so you've got the coming together and then you've got the going out the inspiration and the going out; and you have lent, which is a preparing time. And these are themes that echo throughout our lives and seasons of our lives, did I just say that…gross…periods of our lives.
Seth Price 19:26
You don't like seasons?
Christian 19:29
Seasons of our lives? It sounds like a bad soap opera.
Seth Price 19:31
It's the Telemundo version of Days of Our Lives.
Christian 19:33
Yeah, there you go. They're important to understand and if we can resonate with those, I think. And I don't think it's necessarily prideful to feel like you want to reclaim that. Because really, it's kind of the antithesis of an ego-centric way of approaching Scripture because what we often do is we sit down and we, we we pull the text out of context and when we say Well, what's in this for me? Because we don't understand the bigger story, right. And that's part of what the lectionary does. It gives you an Old Testament text, a Psalm, a gospel text, and an epistle, or a letter from attributed to Paul, although he probably didn't write them all. And showing you a common theme throughout them are how they're referencing the same event, or person or place.
And a lot of times, if we just read one out of context, we don't see those connections. And so since we don't see the bigger connections, we refer it back to ourselves and make it a self help manual. And if the Bible says anything, I think it says it's not all about you, especially the Gospel. So if you're doing that you're kind of running counter to the ethos of the Bible to begin with.
So we have to be given that thing that makes us feel like we're part of something bigger. And I think that's actually a very important part of the of the Christian experience, or the gospel emphasis.
Seth Price 21:00
If there is an easier way to get another Bible thrown at you, it's to start bad mouthing Paul in America, you're gonna have to really be careful Christian.
Christian 21:09
Well I’m in good company if I do. A lot of people think he’s misogynist and homophobic. The thing about Paul, he's a perfect example like, to me of how even I can come back and be sort of a teacher or a leader within whatever this movement is of trying to figure out who Jesus is. Because if Paul, who made a living knocking off Jews and Christians for a living, you know, his fellow people, and “whacking” them for the Roman state, can suddenly be used to yield this amazing content for Scripture. Then maybe I have some hope as well.
And King David who he wants to get on with his good friends wife, so he sends him off Uriah her husband off to die. So he can get up in that. If the Bible can use that for good as well, if God can use that for good, then maybe I’ve got a chance.
Seth Price 22:22
My, um, my pastor said a few months ago, and I can't remember the context and so I'll probably badly paraphrase this but he was talking about wrestling with, you know, things that don't agree and and even when we don't agree with each other, and he's like, Guys, I'm telling you right now, if Paul and James can both exist in the New Testament, your opinion and my opinion can also both coexist, because if we read them the way that they are, they don't agree on a lot, but they do agree on who Christ is. But outside of that there's a lot of nuance there. And if they can agree and both be in Scripture, you and I can also figure out how to disagree and still be Christians together. And still do live together.
Christian 23:01
I think sounds like you got a good church there.
Seth Price 23:03
I think so, um, before we get into the meat of your book, I am curious. So January 20, lectionary text, you call it people to cake ratio. And I'm a big fan of the way that you title each, each reading. So I know that that's a play on Office Space because I work at a big company and office space is one of my absolute favorite movies. But I'm curious what is the proper people to cake ratio? In a non theological term like for you what's the ratio?
Christian 23:36
The people to cake ratio you have really, if you want to talk in all, you know, seriousness about how to avoid panic in an office place, you have to have at least 33% more cake than people. Because otherwise they will lose their minds worrying about whether or not there's enough cake for everybody. If you're not throwing half of it away, then my god you might not have enough.
Seth Price 24:00
You didn't do it? Well, if that's not a concept of America, what else is, Lord forbid we have just the right amount of cake, we need to have enough to throw away an entire another person's cake. And for those that have no idea what we're talking about, just hit pause, go to Amazon and buy the movie Office Space. I promise you, it's the best two hours of your life that you'll spend over this Christmas holiday.
Christian 24:21
It is the best, it is fantastic.
Seth Price 24:23
Um, yeah, “blow this place up”. So you do the beginning of each reading, very similar to a lot of devotions where you've got a first reading, you got a psalm reading, and then you've got a second reading. And so I don't want to spend a lot of time there. Because I feel like anyone that picks up a devotion, if they picked it up, that's what they were expecting; something that isn't really going to make them think too far outside the box. But what really surprised me about each of your breakdowns is you do a section called Bible decoded, Points to Ponder and what's the other one, digging deeper and heads up and so I'd like to break those apart a bit with the intention behind them and kind of how we use those as we work through this text. Starting with Bible Decoded.
Christian 25:09
Yeah, Bible Decoded, takes all the names of people places, and the church speak where the old ancient words are historic words that we don't really understand if we're honest. You know, we read about Uriah alot of us don't really know who that is or why he's talking about why Jesus is talking about a mustard seed. There are so many places and names and words in the Bible that we just don't get. And we're usually too intimidated by it to just say stop and go, Well, sorry, another word. I don't understand. Stop explaining. So I do I try to take those words. And if I'm being honest, a lot of these I'm reading and I'm like, What the hell does that mean? So I have to go look it up myself. It's not like I have this all sitting in my head and I'm just pounding it out like some expert on high. I have gone along and sort of figured alot of this out along the way too. So hopefully you benefit from my grunt work and can just see…Oh, that's what that means. That's the difference between a Seraphim and a Cherubim or whatever, you know, it doesn't even matter. So that's kind of the idea of the Bible decoded piece so you know all the words that you're reading to begin with, maybe it makes a little more sense.
Seth Price 26:36
Does it make sense to read through the Bible Decoded and then maybe go back and reread the text?
Christian 26:42
I think so. Yeah, so I've got the the texts in brief and the Bible decoded. If you want to try just reading it on your own first, and see what you get from it, and then go through and read the texts in brief in the Bible decoded piece. That could be an interesting way to do it. If you're just really kind of going into it the first time and you're really in daunted by the idea of reading Scripture at all. You know, you can start with mine and you know, just say, Hey, you know, hearing a sentence or two, here's some stuff about sort of the big picture of what this text is about. And here are the words you might want to know before you jump into it, then that's a way to do it as well. I've seen people do it both ways. And people get different things from it.
Seth Price 27:32
Yeah. And as people wrestle with these, how do they…is there a way to, to further wrestle with the text to not do what you alluded to earlier, where we're just taking Christian’s word, that, you know, Glory means this or that cheribum means this or that whatever the Spirit of God means this is where what other places are you using to help glean that…alright, so here's what here's what Holy Spirit actually is. And as we read this word, here's everywhere that it's repeated. Here's why it's repeated. Here's the symbolism behind it. Because they don't I want to make sure that we're riding the line carefully between just using you as another figurehead, “Pastor”, from the pulpit saying, trust me, this is what it means. Go with me.
Christian 28:18
Hmm. Well, there's this beautiful thing called the internet. And you can look it up for yourself and see if you think I'm full of shit or not. But other than that, I really like a site called workingpreacher. Which, I mean, it obviously sounds like it's for pastors, but it's actually got some really good reflections and sort of in depth analyses of different texts if you want to go deeper. And so that's one thing that you can use to dig in a little further. You've also got Christian Century is a really good resource. It's a magazine that comes out I think, I think like, twice a month. Is that right? I don't know.
Seth Price 29:11
Sounds good to me. We can also internet that one as well. But I'm always reticent to just trust the internet because on the internet, Abe Lincoln is excited about the internet in that one meme that you see on Facebook all the time.
Christian 29:25
Don't get your news and don't get your Biblical commentary from Facebook for God's sake. But, yeah, Christian Century is really good. The Liturgist Podcast is really good. Not that they break down Bible Speak but but you know that that's another one. And, you know, Christian Century, Working Preacher, The Liturgists and then really, I think the most valuable thing instead of just looking to another, so called experts source…
Seth Price 29:59
…is this podcast!
Christian 29:59
Absolutely. Seth Price’s Can I Say This at Church podcast; and in addition to that small groups get into a small group and read this in a in a group because so there's this ancient approach to reading scripture called Midrash that the Jewish people used to do, and I guess they still do. And you had to read it in community. You had to read it several different ways. You had to look for the symbolic meanings, the theological meanings, the historic and the mystical meanings of it, hmm. And you're looking for multiple layers of truth in the text and then you're supposed to debate or argue or discuss it. And you're not supposed to arrive at “A” correct answer. If you did, you're doing it wrong. It's multiple layers and levels of truth. So That I think is probably the healthiest way to do it; as what is it DennisMiller used to say, “don't take my word for it I could be wrong”. So that that that would be my suggestion.
Seth Price 32:02
As I read through, so I did not read the entire calendar of the book for the entire year mostly because I'm enjoying actually keeping up with it, but I did dive in. I always read like the week of my birthday and a few others. And something that I've noticed is in Points to Ponder as you're, you know, expounding upon the text that you just read. Here's kind of how, you know, first thoughts here we go, let's deal with this is I can't decide if you like the Psalms or if you don't like the Psalms. Like I remember there's one where you're talking about Doubting Thomas. And I think verbatim, you say, you know,
if you're like me, you aren't a big fan of Christian praise music. And this is also why the Psalms are annoying to me.
And I, that's not exactly what you say, but it's something like that.
Christian 32:42
Yeah. (laughter)
Seth Price 32:45
As we do points to ponder, am I wrong and hearing that in your writing that you may or may not like the Psalms or maybe you do now, I don't know?
Christian 32:54
You know, you're the first person to actually pick up on that. You talk about how ambivalent people are toward Paul, sometimes I have an ambivalent relationship towards the Psalms. And I think part of it is because of what we've done with so much of it.
We've pulled so much of it out of the pretty words that sound good, out of context, completely of why it's even there. And we've turned it into these really crappy, bad songs that are just bad production, bad with theology, and we sing them badly. And it just makes the Psalms look terrible. And the Psalms are not just about Yay, Jesus is my boyfriend. There no Jesus in Psalms you know, God is my boyfriend. God looks after me. I'm his. I'm his favorite and all that but that's what you would think in hearing a bunch of the songs that are based on songs. What I have enjoyed is learning a lot of the politics that were going on in that time. So basically these tribes in that region and you know, David was the king of Israel. And, and there were all these other tribes and they're always sort of changing alliances.
So Judea and Syria would gang up on Israel for a while and then Israel and Judea would gang up on somebody else, and then they'd all get pissed off and turn on David. And so when you all of a sudden read these texts, knowing the the game of Risk that are playing if you played that old board game, you know, this, this sort of strategy of trying to get the upper hand and just survive and, and, you know, fight out by word, who’s God was right. It's a lot more interesting.
And really read how incredibly conflicted and imperfect this David guy really was. And yet he and God said had this really fundamentally rich relationship in spite of it all. You know, it makes me think, okay, so when you're in a relationship or you're wrestling with God, it doesn't make your teeth whiter, it doesn't make you speak and do perfect things. It actually is even harder in some ways. Because you know better and then you feel like you have to do better. You can't plead ignorance, I guess. So I have a love hate relationship with the Psalms. So a very, very astute observation there.
Seth Price 35:50
Well, that's when you know, I guess that people are really reading as opposed to just just taking what you give them freely and do nothing with it.
Christian 35:58
Yes, I've had many times when I've been interviewed and I'm like, did you open the book or did you just look at the back cover?
Seth Price 36:06
There's another question but I don't want to dive off into Star Wars but I've heard you say elsewhere that, I forget which one you say is better, but I'm pretty sure you use Return of the Jedi as the be all end all in the book. But I know that that's not what you truly maybe I'm getting them backwards either way. I know you contradict yourself, but I can't remember. I can't remember…it doesn't matter.
Christian 36:28
The paradox is beautiful. But no the fact is, it's just an empirical fact that Empire Strikes Back is the best of the first trilogy. And Return to the Jedi is the worst because when you start putting talking teddy bears and you're gonna take down the Empire, you've jumped the shark.
Seth Price 36:43
So you also don't like the Care Bears then I'm not happy with this amount of hate towards the bears.
Christian 36:51
I cannot stand the Smurfs, the Care Bears. I don't even like My Little Pony. You can just mark it down-mark it down today.
Seth Price 37:00
I want to be really clear. I also don't like the Ewoks or any of the other things that actually so last night we were going to pick up my kids from someone at church it was letting them do like Christmas cookies at their house while my wife and I went out. And while I'm following in this minivan into the neighborhood, the little DVD that they have down because they have a fancier car than I do. They were watching like the original 1980’s Transformers. And I really was sad that I couldn't listen to it. Like I could see it. I'm like, I know that episode. That's a good one. And then I couldn't I couldn't partake in it, it really pissed me off, because that's a much better. Anyway, we were way off the deep end there.
Seth Price 37:39
(laughter) I've lost my train of thought. (Christian laughs)
Actually no this kind of works. So I feel like if I was you, I would figure out a way to make Transformers work its way into the lectionary text. Because one of the things that you do I mean, you use Office Space you use the Empire Strikes Back you use Super Mario Brothers, you use music videos, you use so many different things to help shed new light light on to the text in the contemporary way. And so is that easy to do to take something that isn't used for an entirely different purpose and then roll it back in to Scripture?
Christian 38:14
You know, I guess it's just how my brain works. Because in the last interview I did, and they weren't even asking me about the pop culture references, per se. But I think in a span of a half hour interview, I brought up The Matrix, Pulp Fiction, and Star Wars. And just because I think, Oh, it's like that time when Marcellus Wallace’s soul is in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, or when, you know, Neo says there is no spoon or whatever. So it just, I don't know, that's just how my brain just kind of marbles around it, you know, pinballs around in there. And I've always liked seeing those connections. It's an anchor point for me, because the I was horrible at history in school, believe it or not. I was so bad in history class, it was the one class I could barely pass because it was so abstract, the way it was taught, it wasn't relevant to me today.
And then all of a sudden, I took a history of political science or government class or something. And I thought, God, this is gonna be horrible. But the guy actually made it relevant to me today. And I was like, “Oh, that's what all that means!” Suddenly, it made sense to me today in some lived experience. So ever since then, my brain has kind of done that to make sense of things that I've read or that have happened in the past. And so I just sort of as I'm writing those devotionals usually, I just think oh, this totally reminds me of “bla bla bla” and that's so that's what I'll write down.
Seth Price 39:57
Are you happy with the way that Jules Winfield from Pulp Fiction uses the Ezekiel text? Do you feel good with with his expounding on that?
Christian 40:04
Well, I wouldn't say it was a particularly healthy exegesis. But it was pretty badass! I gotta give him that.
Seth Price 40:16
It was it was great. Yeah, I rewatched that the other day. And I was like, Man, this is. This is really good, now. I remember at the time feeling so taken aback that oh my gosh, I can't believe that you would use the Bible that way. And I'm at a point now that I'm like, I that's clever. I like you. I like what you know, you're so good. I like what you did there.
Christian 40:35
And it's a great example of us, just basically justifying what we are already doing in life by sanctioning it by God, which is something that David did a lot if want to tie it back to Scripture. So, you know, in that way, Jules was a lot like David and saying, Oh, you know, this is working because God wants me to do it or justifying, I have to do this because I am an emissary of God. Yeah, we do that all the time.
Seth Price 41:05
What was your least favorite version in Year C to write? Like what was your least favorite week that you had to deal with, just didn't want to deal with this text or I don't want to deal with this part of the liturgical calendar.
Christian 41:19
Well, normal season is always kind of weird. And you can figure out why it's called that ordinary time. You know, when you've got a finite period, like Lent or Advent and you have these very intentional themes that you're working on. It is usually more fruitful, I think. Whereas sometimes I feel like the the people who put the the lectionary calendar together, we're kind of grasping and some of those ordinary times like, well, we got to put these together, because we haven't talked about it yet. And let's them figure out what they how they connect. So sometimes that's hard. Um, I sometimes there are just really brutal stories…about…well…like Lot throwing his daughters out to be gang raped by a crazy, you know, mob outside his door-or how, you know, it says thank you God for letting us you know murder this entire other tribe of people because you love us better.
You know that kind of stuff is hard to work through, because it says what it says. But what it does is it challenges our fundamental approach to how we understand Scripture, is it that was God revealing God's true self through Scripture or was it humanity trying to get at different aspects of God in the media that we had? And that maybe there's some of that that has truth in it. But that doesn't mean that the claims made by the author are entirely encompassing of the nature of God. So those are hard because that's a lot to fit in to say 1500 words, which I do for a week.
Seth Price 43:21
Someone buys the book, they sit down January, one New Year's resolution, I'm going to read the book. I'm not gonna read the book, I'm going to read the Bible and this book intentionally each week, and I'm going to meditate on these what is the biggest thing that you hope someone walks away with on December 31?
I would like to say from Advent to Advent, but we've already missed this Advent because tomorrow's Christmas. So what's the biggest what's the biggest thing that you say you know, alright, so when you starting Advent in Year A, which is not the way the alphabet works, but whatever, from C to A, what's the biggest thing that you hope that someone that is that sits with this with intention and really wrestles with the text that they end with?
Christian 44:01
I mean, one of the most rewarding things I've had people tell me is your books finally allowed me to pick up the Bible again, and feel differently about it. But I think a lot of people have very complicated feelings around Scripture, or at least the way it’s been used toward them or against them even.
Yeah, so I hope that they feel that the Bible has been liberated from that. That, the shackles, that burden of fear, anger, resentment that they had, that they look forward to it. They see that there's some pretty exciting things to learn. I know that Bible and exciting don't really go together unless you're, you know, unless you're the super hip youth minister from Saved your Jesus is awesome. Jesus is rad. Let's get hiped for the Bible.
Seth Price 45:00
That sounds like a Texas version of Danny Lovett, but I went to Liberty I don't know if you know who Danny love it is but if you know who that is?
Christian 45:07
Exactly and it's you know it's just basically it's it's Hellfire and brimstone fundamentalism with better grooming and a hipster t-shirt. And so it's not that-this is meant to be like “Wow, there’s some beautifully deep waters here and I just feel like I'm, I'm making some new connections. And I want to I want to talk to the people about it”. I don't mean to go out and like convert win souls for Jesus but like, have some discourse and to not be intimidated into silence about what you think and what you believe and why you think it and why you believe it.
Because I think that happens a lot with mainliners and progressives and skeptics and people on the margins. You know, we say, I don't really think that the way you're talking about the Bible the way you're using it is right, but I don't have enough tools to speak to another perspective. I really hope that they feel like, that people feel like, that they have some new tools and a new vocabulary and a new confidence to say, you know what, there are other ways to interpret the scripture that you just use to tell me that gay people are evil. And, I have something to back that up with. And I don't mean to get into a fight, but I mean, it's not even to tell somebody they're wrong. But say, you know, I actually have another perspective and here's why. That would be all I could ask for.
Seth Price 46:38
No, 100% agree, especially with the tool thing, if anything I've learned this year the amount of reading that I've had to do to speak at a level that I can even function with people such as yourself, and you know, NT Wright and other people has given me way more information that I could use if I felt like it in a way to make people feel a little; and I'm finding though that I never really want do that, like that's not helpful. It's not beneficial. It's definitely not the heart of Christ. And if anything, it turns people off from any form of religion especially mine.
And if you don't believe me just go on Facebook and and get in an argument with someone real quick and then there we go he talked about it earlier about not getting your theological grounding in the Facebook post. Oh, although it's fun if you just want to post I find I just like to post memes over and over again doesn't really matter what you said, I just posted a meme until quiet, it just makes me laugh.
And that's really all I care about. Where would you point people to Christian to both engage with you to get the book? You know, just in general, where would you send people to?
Christian 47:43
To engage with me, I am on social media. While, I think there are a lot of downsides to it. It also is sort of a connective tissue of our culture today. So I am on Facebook, hopefully not arguing with people. I’m on Twitter, Instagram
Seth Price 48:03
I mean I can go on there right now and yell at you and so we can argue yesterday if you want.
Christian 48:08
Perfect! Yes, I’ve have my coffee, I'm ready to go, I’m loaded!
So you can find me at Christianpiatt.com is not very up to date but you can reach me through that if you have questions specifically or if you're wanting like books signed or anything like that.
You can look up all my books from my memoir on parenting to the novel Blood Doctrine to Banned questions about you know, the Bible, Jesus and Christians another series I did just all on, you know, Amazon, Barnes and Noble Apple books, you can order them in stores and yeah, I'm pretty easy to find if you if you want to find me.
Seth Price 48:53
Everywhere good books are sold.
Christian 48:55
Yes. And Home Brewed Culture Cast is our podcast. We've been in a hiatus for a while, but we are coming back. And so you can look up the Homebrew Culture Cast to hear my wife Amy and me doing our our thing as well.
Seth Price 49:10
When should we expect that because honestly, I've never listened to that I'm happy to, I don't really want to go back in time and re listen to all that stuff because I don't have that kind of time. But I would like to listen to it going forward. So when do you expect that to be a thing?
Christian 49:24
Well, we're about to go on…well, tomorrow afternoon, Christmas afternoon, we're going to head up to New Mexico. And my guess is we will do some recording there while we have some time and get started. Because I've already got a couple of interviews in the can. And so look for it in the new year.
Seth Price 49:41
Awesome. Awesome. Well, Christian, thank you again for your time. And for this text. And for those listening please do go and buy this. Everyone likes to do a devotion throughout the year. And this one is is well worth all the time and energy. I'm greatly enjoying it personally. So I would encourage each of you to do the same. But thank you again, Christian.
Christian 49:59
Appreciate it. Thanks Seth
Seth Price 50:27
Entirely needed are conversations that press us and give us further depth of knowledge so that we can have conversations with those around us in Christians survive in the Bible for this year does that music today provided by Loud Harp, you can find their most recent release everywhere. Good music is sold released in June of 2017. And as always, you'll find today's tracks on the Can I Say This At Church Spotify playlist, tell a friend rate and review the show.
Talk with you next week.