Hell is Not Real and We're Making It

Almost every morning for the last few weeks I have gotten up with the same routine. Alarm, shower, COFFEE (no playing there), help my wife with the kids’ lunches—who am I kidding…that last bit is a lie. I’m basically just a bystander when it comes to school lunches. If it wasn’t for her my children would likely not even eat what I tried to pack for them. I’ll still take the credit though as is my God given right.

Back to it…I turn on the news and dial it in wherever I think I won’t be depressed. And then, without fail, every single day brings the onslaught of news about Ukraine. Honestly, I’m sick of it, I’m over it.

I have prayed. I have intermittently fasted. I have prostrated myself before the Divine and I just have to get this off my chest, and since I grew up with the only right way to believe, I must be correct here.

America, and the rest of the world, wake up! I’m so sick and tired of hearing you say, “Putin is out of his mind!” Yes, that might very well be so. But you have to really think about this, there is simply no way someone would do what he’s doing if they weren’t being compelled by God; I mean who would seek out strife and suffering? Who would want that for those that we live next too? There’s just no way that God doesn’t have a hand in this!

Let’s try to zoom out here and gather some context. Putin has gone on the offensive in Ukraine, a move that surprised no-one (stop acting shocked) but that wasn't his goal! Ukraine was never his goal! His goal was to make moves, ultimately, against Israel. You see, God is getting ready to do something amazing here and all that I’ve been spoon fed from a young age is about to be fulfilled. Hall-e-freaking-lujah! Can I get an amen from the back row? Putin is doing exactly what he’s been led to do, by God, as a move to set up Ukraine as a staging ground for one of the great armies as we begin to anticipate the end of all things and the beginning of new things for those who believe like we do! Just look a bit south from where he sits. You’ve got President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey who won, as ordained, re-election a few years ago and with it a sweeping set of new powers, this story is about him really but do your Googles and you’ll see God’s hand everywhere here.

Anyhow, between Erdoğan and Putin you’ve got this little area of the Dardanelles that is just a pivotal port and sea exchange; it’s obvious this is just a staging ground. We didn’t see, or ignored, the staging of Putin over the past few years as he amassed military might in and around Ukraine to do what he’s doing today. I’m here to tell you this same thing is happening here in this region and it's going to happen! So let me just put you where you need to be before we get too carried away with justice movements, and refugee movements in the coming weeks and months. War is coming, it’s coming to us all, but this is to be celebrated. Without us pummeling one another into political, social, and religious submission how else is Jesus to return to finally show us how to stop killing one another?

It will most certainly hurt, just like any punishment does, but our God says I'm going to put hooks in your jaws and I'm going to draw you into this battle, whether you like it or not. It’s right there in the part of the Bible that we’ve all been avoiding! This is not a surprise! (Ezekiel 38:4). Putin is being compelled, as we all will be and you just watch what's going to happen next. You read your Bible because it's coming to pass! You’ll be compelled to fight; you’ll then be compelled to kneel. There is a Hell, it’s real, and some of you are about to get a first hand account.

At least that’s what I used to sound like…

I interrupt that diatribe to bring us all back to reality…

I’m really hoping you’re still with me and haven’t rage quit the internet and thrown your phone/computer against a wall. I won’t lie, that was fun to type! It was easy, scarily easy. It’s almost like that version of me was baked in and is still there at a foundational level just ready to be drawn up at any time. Freaky how indoctrination works isn’t it? All too comfortable is the ability to lean into fear and rage and animosity and use it as fuel to live in a fantasy world of what God is going to do on behalf of me, whether or not I think it’s true. Before I get too far into ripping my own words above apart I think it’s important to set some actual context to those words, this post, where I’m at, etc.

The words above were taken loosely from Pat Robertson's recent reappearance on the 700 Club as well as a peppering of the spittle that came from my upbringing of fundamentalisms topped with a seasoning of other evangelical pastors. Here is a convenient way to listen to what good ol’ Pat had to say. Watch it right here///but please don’t watch it.

 

Honestly, I wouldn’t watch this. It’s just about as bad, if not moreso, than what I wrote above.

Fun right! Nope not even a little. So let us break this down a bit but before we do I want to just list the things this won’t be: it won’t be a thought about how easily the world received these refugees (and they should) but can’t from countries not Ukraine…makes me wonder if, just maybe their skin color had something to do with this. It won’t be a story about military, honestly it will barely be a story about any one person. I’m just using Putin here as an easy symbol same as I’m using Robertson.

This type of theology that Robertson, and so many others, have spewed out is just plain wrong. I’m not even going to try to break that down here. There are many episodes in which I do, perhaps there should be another.

Putin is being compelled by nothing other than greed, fear, and a false feeling of exceptionalism. This is nothing new, especially for American’s, it’s literally the story of every empire other. It’s an “I see what you have and I want it. Stop me if you want to try but it’s mine…God told me it’s mine” mentality. This is not some “smart” invasion — I’m not convinced that that is a thing that even can be.

As, daily, we sit aside and watch the world rip itself apart, rockets ravage others, bullets rip away hopes and dreams we are watching humanity continue in its perpetual creation of hell. God is not making this hell, we are. Yep you read that right. You and I create hell.

Hell. Is. Not. Real. It isn’t somewhere you are going when you die, it’s not somewhere anyone is going. Images come to me from my childhood, images of weeping and gnashing of teeth, the planet opening, flames that stretch to the edges of the atmosphere, all those deemed unworthy tossed into the gaping maw of the inlet of pure evil. Those images, while useful for a pastor or church to raise money with, are just false. So what then, if you’re still even listening, is hell?

It’s decisions that you and I choose. Hell, in my view, is the moment that one chooses an action that breaks the shalom of God. We are collectively creating it. Turn on the news, do you not see weeping and gnashing of teeth in Ukraine? Do you not see death and destruction in countries that are less financially fortunate than the superpowers filled with the ravages of death and despair? Do you not see war tearing us all apart and with every single ballistic fired something dies, something weeps, something gnashes, something is ripped from the shalom of God. They, God, didn’t make this, we do; and it should break our hearts.

This is true for each of us at a micro level as well. The decisions that I choose to make, that missing the mark (sin), creates death. When I’m abusive, deceptive, and destructive in my day-to-day life relationships die, community is destroyed, others suffer and that too is a hell of my making. From my, and our, decisions spanning from our homes and families, to the apathy to Central and South America, to Yemen, to Palestine, to Ukraine, and to the countless other portions of the globe hell is something you and I are in control of.

So what then should we do? I think it’s so simple and so hard. We have to act in a way that does the opposite of hell. Each action must be making a priority the shalom of the persons involved at the deficit of ourselves. This is what it means to be Christian is it not? To love your neighbor as yourself? Living that way creates a new thing, a new kingdom, a Heaven here right now.

There is much more that should be said here but it’s as simple as this; you and I are creating hell and at the same time we are partnering with the divine to create shalom and we all bear culpability for this hell that we are spectating right now.

How Did I Get Here?

By Mike Koolen:

When you go to a new church, everyone wants to know your story.  Where are you at in your “journey”?  What brought you here?  How would you describe the “season” you’re in?

I will fully admit that these are all buzzwords and things that I had no knowledge of.  I never thought of a journey or a season; I thought you believed or you didn’t.

I’m learning to see things differently now but I thought I’d start out this series, or project, or journal (I really don’t know what to call it) from the beginning of my journey.

Raised by a Roman Catholic father and Protestant mother (no idea on denomination) we were church goers for much of my life.  I was raised as a Catholic who went to public school but still took part in all of the major milestone sacraments of the Catholic Church that a kid would go through.  Infant baptism, First Communion, First Confession and Confirmation were all a part of my youth and were essentially where I learned about God.

If at this point you’re looking for a rant against the Catholic Church, that’s not something you’re going to find here.  Even though I no longer consider myself to be Roman Catholic that doesn’t mean that I’m angry with the church for anything I’ve dealt with personally.  The Catholic Church provided me with a cornerstone or jumping off point to my faith; it’s where I repeated the Lord’s Prayer and it’s where I first experienced God.  

Like many young people, I pulled back from the church in my teens and 20’s.  While laziness would be the main reason, some of what I learned (or at least thought I learned) in the Catholic Church played a major role.  

I’ve always questioned the idea of confession to a priest.  If that helps you, then knock yourself out but it was never my thing.  If God was truly all knowing then he knows what I did all the time.  He would also know that I left out certain stuff when in confession so as not to cause problems.  He would know that those things were running through my mind when I was talking to the priest.  Being a public school kid, I didn’t have to experience it often but I genuinely feared confession and I haven’t been in a confessional booth in over 25 years.

Prayer is also a tough one for me that I’m trying to work through.  While I don’t know if I understood the lessons properly or not, I came away from church with the mentality that if I wasn’t physically in God’s house, no one was listening to my prayers.  This could be a twisting of the teachings, but the important part would be that is how I interpreted it.  A lot of things were tough for me with this mentality and I just couldn’t deal with it.  I would say that the final nail in my moving on from Catholic Church was during a time of family illness.  It was an incredibly frightening time for my family but not once did I darken the door of my local church.  I did however spend a lot of time talking to God during this time.  When the illness was rectified I basically took that to mean that someone was listening regardless of where I sat.  

After that, I didn’t go to church other than for weddings or funerals for 15 years…

Why start going to church in your mid-30’s?

I had friends that knew I was a person of faith and knew that I didn’t have any sort of community that I was involved with.  They asked me to come to their church and I resisted.  I thought that church was only what I had experienced as a kid:  

  • People droning through creeds without really thinking about the words.  

  • Hard pews

  • fancy clothes  

  • Sitting quietly and listening to the ones who are up front which means they’re better than you

As a kid, I don’t recall ever seeing someone sitting in a pew with a bible in their hands.  The Catholic Church still seemed to subscribe to the pre-reformation idea of the man up front is the one who reads from the book.

My wife and I talked for years about going to church and always found one excuse or another as to why it wasn’t the right time for us.  

One week, through the magic of Facebook, we discovered a friend of a friend was a Pastor in the town we live now.  And the church was only a 5-minute drive!  

How do I get out of this?  Think Koolen, think!  Can we use the kids as an excuse like we have been for years?  Apparently, the children’s pastor is a substitute teacher at their school and they love her…crap, can’t use that one.  Fine, I guess we’ll go. 

So Super Bowl Sunday in 2016, we loaded the family and headed to church.  Now don’t get ahead of yourself, this wasn’t a come to Jesus moment for either of us.  I still resisted.  I had hang-ups about how church is “supposed to be”.  It was too loud and there were padded chairs and people had coffee in their hands.  Everything seemed off.  

*Side note, when I told a friend I started at church on Super bowl Sunday, he said “geez Koolen, how much did you have riding on that game?

So, there we are at church and we were welcomed with open arms.  I look to the stage and there isn’t an old man in a robe reading from a giant bible; there’s a guy my age in jeans with a PowerPoint presentation that includes Lord of the Rings and even The Simpsons from time to time. 

Somehow, we immediately felt comfortable in this small community.  People embraced us, and the kids were thrilled.  I started to look forward to church each week but even still Church Mike and Work/Real Mike were two different guys.  

I still had some very old ideas when I started at church and I guess my whole life had brought me to that point but to use a very Christian term, I think my “journey” really started that day.

Inside the Mind of a Constructing Christian

Guest Post by Mike Koolen:

I was inspired by a friend’s post about his journey and his mentor.  It made me start to think about my theology and my beliefs and just where they come from.  While normally this would be a Facebook post, this felt like more.  

You may ask, who is this guy—why should I care?  And those are valid questions.  

I’m a middle aged, middle class, Canadian guy with a marriage, a mortgage and a minivan.  Add two kids and life in a small city and that’s pretty much where I’m at.  I’m nothing special, but I’m also very special. 

I believe that we are created in the likeness and image of God and I don’t think anyone is any more special than anyone else.  What/Who that God is however and, what that looks like, is a much bigger question.  

I’m not a Bible scholar by any means and have had no formal theological training. To be honest, I don’t know that I have the right to be writing this right now.  Those who are passionate about the word are probably not going to invite me to their study.  I’m not able to quote chapter and verse the things I’ve heard or learned and if I’m truly being honest here…I haven’t read the whole Bible!  (Where’s the Heresy button when you need it?) I believe the bible is a guidebook pointing us toward the truth and toward love but not a textbook to be followed to the letter.  We can get into that more another time…

What I am is passionate about Love and Kindness and I believe that that has brought me to Jesus.  I’ve never questioned my faith but in the last half decade I’ve certainly strengthened it.  I’ve opened my eyes to a world beyond the black and white, right and wrong, in or out, mentality that permeates everything we do.  Why can’t we have discussions without there being a winner at the end or someone who comes out on top?  Why are we always coming from the side of “convincing” rather than “understanding”?  Who are we to try to exclude from seeking Jesus or an understanding of God?  

I’m not in a de-constructing phase or a re-constructing phase because unlike many, I was never scarred by the church and hold no ill will toward my upbringing.  I would call myself a Constructing Christian in that I don’t feel the need to tear down anything in my own history but I do feel the need to build on it.  I was raised Catholic and I feel that what I learned in my youth provided a cornerstone (see, I know some Biblical stuff) to my faith today.  Now I work daily to learn and grow and understand more and more from all around me and I am trying to understand and learn from other faiths and the history nerd in my wants to find out where things split and the why.

I’m a man who is heavily influenced by the likes of Thomas Jay Oord, Bruxy Cavey, Keith Giles, Greg Boyd, Brian Zhand, Peter Enns, Barbara Brown Taylor, Rachel Held Evans and Steve Austin.  I enjoy listening to the homilies of Richard Rohr as well as podcasts like Can I Say This At Church, The What If Project and the Messy Spirituality Podcast; the voices of Seth Price, Glenn Siepert and Jason Elam have become the soundtrack to my commute.  These people have introduced me to ideas and world views I hadn’t previously thought about.  They’ve introduced me to authors and musicians that I would have never uncovered on my own.  

Becoming stronger in my faith and pursuit of understanding has given me a much more liberal view of the world and for some reason, I feel compelled to share that.  I have no idea where this journey will take me but I’m excited to find out.  

A Prayer For the President

““You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.” ‭‭

Matthew‬ ‭5:43-45‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

Today I was greeted by an email I didn’t expect. The title was simply “a message from A New Liturgy”. They had me when they hit send. I open some emails as soon as I see them-this are one of those emails. (There is a larger story to why ovet at the website)

And so I began listening to a liturgy, about 20 mins long, on peacemaking. I was so convicted as Aaron spoke. He and other read through the be attitudes and I was stopped so fast. The kids zooming around and the other distractions began to fade away.

I realized—I am failing. I’ve fallen into the trap of “othering” and making my neighbor a stranger instead of turning my strangers into neighbors; recognizing the divine in them.

To go further there was discussion in the liturgy about praying for those that we don’t want to. The example was given about praying for Pelosi and her counterparts also likewise to pray for the President. I found myself unable to. I remained quiet at dinner - I failed. But I’ll try again right here…

Most Holy God, I thank for your your great mercy and compassion. I thank you for the countless blessings that you give me eyes to see. Divine Mother; I pray now those same blessings on our president and those that surround him. I pray for his family, for his advisors, and for those that have influence in his life that they grow to have eyes of compassion and mercy as you do. Forgive me for using excuses to harbor animosity towards those you call holy. Amen

— I’ll leave you with a prayer from the liturgy (among other places) May we all find the space to pray for those we can’t agree with and may that change lead us all to further seeing and hearing one another. —

Let us confess our sins against God and our neighbor. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen.

Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us all our sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen us in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep us in eternal life.

Amen.

**Find the liturgy here: https://www.aaronniequist.com/a-liturgy-for-peacemakers

2019's Top 10 Episodes

What is a Pastor?

Today I watched portions of John MacArthur and well...

What is a pastor?

Pastor someone that you see on a Sunday, or on a Saturday, or on a Wednesday, or whatever day you happen to go and participate in your worship service of choice. The pastor is that person that stands up there and preaches, right?

At least, that's what I think most people think of when they think of pastor—that’s what you and I are told.

But for me, that's not going to cut it.

Let’s look at it at the word itself. Fancy word time—etymology (or the history of a word and how and why it works the way it does. Here is the etymology for pastor...

pastor (n.)
late 14c. (mid-13c. as a surname), "shepherd," also "spiritual guide, shepherd of souls," from Old French pastor, pastur "herdsman, shepherd" (12c.), from Latin pastorem (nominative pastor) "shepherd," from pastus, past participle of pascere "to lead to pasture, set to grazing, cause to eat," from PIE root *pa- "to feed; tend, guard, protect." The spiritual sense was in Church Latin (e.g. Gregory's "Cura Pastoralis"). The verb in the Christian sense is from 1872.

This, I think falls short however.

You see “Pastor” is not just a noun. It's a verb and it's an adjective. It's an action-it’s so much more.

And I'm sorry, if that offends you; if it offends what you’ve been told. Pastor is not some man, and only a man, that is gifted to preach and teach and shepherd.

So what is it? It is a person that gives advice, guidance, leadership, and service in a way that truly helps lead people see the divine.

A Pastor is not a woman or a man-gender is not a requirement for a pastorate.

A pastor is one that helps us hold bigger intentionality helping us move past binaries about God; all the while expanding our relationships with each other as a body and with God.

It is one that comes alongside people and loves as well as lifts them up all the while in counsel with them and God.

Getting back to the concept of a shepherd....

A healthy pastor, upon seeing those entrusted to them eating the field down to nothing, realizes how unhealthy this can be and lovingly leads to new pastures and new fields to graze in. Often this path requires many pastors and intentionality.

How does someone do that though? Look out at a field and determine if it’s still a safe place to be, if safe is even the answer to a question that needs to be asked? It will require the intentional allowing by we the congregation to give space to pastors to turn off, to not answer the phone, to be “not clergy” for a season. Back to the field.

Pastor's are allowed to be prophetic, to counsel, live, cry with, grieve with, laugh with, and yes at times even fail people-maybe even be allowed to be honest about their doubts.

You see Pastor for me is not a noun. Yes, it's a vocation. And yes, it's a job, but is also a call to living. I mean think about it. So many things are and so many, so many people are so much bigger than their job. I think of teachers. They're loving and self giving and self sacrifices, often to their own detriment, doing what they can to ensure that those that they are trying to instruct have the tools necessary to learn.

I think of nurses that self sacrificially pour out their emotions to those that are literally broken and not just to the patients but also with the families as well as the fellow staff. They too are in community with people, and are more than their vocation. I could do this for every single job, we are more than our vocation.

And pastor is often a beautiful expression of what the love of God is, what Christ's love is, not someone that constantly yells at you (I’m looking at you MacArthur). Not someone that constantly berates you and tells you that you're not allowed to be something or do something because of who you are. Be that gender, sexual preferences, or race-it's not somebody that does that.

It's someone that intentionally make sure again, that you have fresh grass to eat that you're well fed that you know that you're loved by the one that made the field. And the one that makes the grass, and the one that made you. And the one that made the pastor.

We, together, lament. Notre Dame…

My phone is constantly, incessantly, bombarding me with notifications and quite often times I just ignore them. Today, however, it went off like someone important had been shot and killed. My first responsive thought

Dear God no, another mass shooting!

Thankfully this was not the case. Instead what I saw was news alerts peppered from all sorts of sources around the globe detailing that Norte Dame was on fire.

My first reaction was that this couldn’t be or that it would soon be handled. So I went on with my day at work and largely forgot about it. A few hours passed and again the notifications. This time I quickly glanced and what I saw had left me in horror.

I watched on repeat as the spire collapsed under the weight of its own framing. Those that know me will tell you how often I am at a loss for words, yet today I am.

I do however have a few things to say. I’m watching so many people demonize whom they call “other” and accuse them of vandalizing and doing something to purposefully cause this. There have been no corroborating reports that I have seen of this and so my brethren, I would ask you to show patience and have some empathy for those impacted. So too have I seen outpourings of love and compassion towards the communities that this is impacting. I’ve watched followers of the faith gather together to sing, pray, lament, and be in community with one another.

There are countless metaphors running through my head. Many of which are informed by the content I have been intentionally dealing with for this show over these past years. I can’t help but think of the symbolism of our church as I watch a symbol literally burn up and fall before my eyes. I won’t take this metaphor further than that though…you can if you like.

I also am reminded that change comes. Change is hard and heartbreaking as it comes. Change, if we will let it, will push us to grow. Painfully at times and this will most certainly be one of those times as we process this loss. We as a community need one thought as we press forward.

The form of faith you call home is inconsequential compared to love. The love that we display for one another is what will matter. Hold one another. Grieve if you need too and give others the space needed to do the same. As we enter into Holy Week know that Christ is bigger than any building and grander than any symbol or church cathedral.

T

The Most Impactful Episodes for Me in 2018 - Part 3 - Dominique Gilliard

This is part 3 of a larger series:

Introductions:

I honestly cannot remember how I first heard of Dominique, but I know that the moment I did I had to pursue it further. I distinctly remember sending IVP an email asking if a conversation would be an option, and they coordinated it. Then I was off to do what I do and prep for this episode.

Some context as to why this would be a hard conversation to prepare for: All past chats had dealt specifically, or mostly, with theology and interpretation directly. So few, if any, of the episodes had much to do with application of what it looks like to live with the tension of what Christ calls us to do and not just believe. Thinking back on this, I can clearly see in my note-taking, and in my sequencing of questions, the reason behind this. To be concise, I was afraid to push people at a personal level in their communities and afraid to be entirely open in my public voice. Theology is one thing, but religion, politics, racism are all topics that turn away friends and those closest to you while they wonder, “What happened to him?” What happened? Jesus happened.

Hell, atonement, ecology, etc.—they are big words that deal with a larger community involved. They call us to face God at a deeply personal level, and at that level the growth that comes is often moving us forward, even when what that looks like is hard to articulate. But at work, at home, in person, seemed to me to move the needle very little with how I presented and postured myself in front of others.

I remember the day I cracked open Dominique’s </I>Rethinking Incarceration</i>. I was at my son’s baseball practice; it was freezing outside so I watched from the car and read off and on as the kids batted and (tried) to catch pop flies. Then the words:

The church must confess that its support of a broken criminal justice system has emboldened systematic injustice. One of the ways the church has been complicit in our criminal injustice system is our uncompromising support of law-and-order legislation. We must repent of our complicity. Repentance requires naming sin, renouncing it, and turning away from it in order to return to God. (emphasis mine)*

They haunted me. How had I not known this? At some level I feel like I always did, but had been fine to let “government” work this out. Surely they were better or smarter at the convo than I was. Surely they had worked this out already. I read of private prisons and the economy of them. Of the slavery that still exists and of the apathy or blatant complacency that those that call Jesus Lord had about it.

This book caused me to deal with things more openly than I wanted to. But to do it right, I’d have to step well outside that comfort zone and be more vocal. I used to think that my voice was so small it didn’t matter. But in wrestling with this book and in wrestling with the conversation with Dominique about mass incarceration, I instead learned the value of one voice. I may not have a megaphone, but what I do have is two hands and two feet—and I’ve been called to use them for Christ. It was time I acted like it.

Nothing was the same for me after reading this book. The way I view criminals, the way I look at punishment, and the way (more importantly) I view forgiveness and grace for those that have wronged others. It’s made me a better person.

In closing, I’ll end with a voice raised with lyrics from the song woven into the episode by A New Liturgy:

Can’t we just admit together we’re not fine? Cause I’m not fine and you’re not fine. Can’t we just admit together we’re afraid? Cause I’m afraid and you’re afraid. Can’t we just admit together we have doubts? Cause I have doubts—do you have doubts? Can’t we just admit together we’re not free? Cause I’m not free and I wanna be. If you’re not free, then sing with me. Emmanuel-God with us today.

Miss the episode with Dominique find it everywhere it is or here you go:

This is part 3 of a larger series if you’ve missed parts one or 2 check them out right here: part 1 / part 2

*Dominique Gilliard: Rethinking Incarceration - p46

The Most Impactful Episodes for Me in 2018 - part 2 - Alexander Shaia

Deciding on the next conversation to follow-up on part one of the most impactful episodes, and why, from last year was a hard one for me. As I’ve said before, each episode holds a special place for entirely different reasons; and yet, as I’ve given it thought over the past weeks since the post about the Eternal Current (if you haven’t read that I’d recommend it) the episodes and corresponding conversations that come to mind for me are the ones with Alexander Shaia. 

The Most Impactful Episodes for Me in 2018 - part 1- Aaron Niequist

This past year of discussing faith and life with some of the most genuine and brilliant minds on the show has been so fulfilling. I am partial to each and every one of them for so many reasons but a few changed me in ways that I’m most grateful for. Over the next few weeks I’ll discuss those few:

Aaron Niequist:

Somehow I had been able to at least fake that I knew what I was doing on this podcast. I’d emailed a publisher directly; luckily, they’d responded. Soon enough I’d be conversation with Dominique Gilliard about mass incarceration (which was a great conversation, but another time) and at the end of our chat I was at a loss for words. Dominque’’s book left me unsettled and entirely sad. It left me feeling hopeless, even though I know we are called to be hope when there is none. In short this book left me in lament—and American’s hate lament. For a considerable amount of time I stayed there and this posed a problem…the music.

Each episode is, for me, entirely unique, and so I try with intention to match the music for each episode to the subject of discussion. Not that I wouldn’t love one day to have a theme music, but right now I most often find, and worship, God through song. At some base level my heart sings things that my mouth is unable to voice. It’s overwhelming and entirely worth it; but which music could honestly fit a conversation about prison. For me I found that the music and the intentionality of the liturgies from A New Liturgy by Aaron Niequist. So I emailed and fast-forward a few weeks and boom…music is set and I felt comfortable with the emotion in the music fitting with the intention of the episode.

Often that’s the end of it for me: record topic, find music, insert, go on to the next thing. But this was different.

Aaron, in his response about music, asked if I’d be interested in chatting about a book he was writing that would come out mid-summer. So, being in the position I was in at the time, of course I said yes. Who would say no? The hardest part is always securing the interview.

The Eternal Current:

So I began reading the Eternal Current and what my heart had found in the music of A New Liturgy, my head found in the pages. Aaron’s book shook me, not because of the content, necessarily, but because of the introduction to The Examen form of prayer. In the past I’d meandered about in contemplation but never really tried to engage in it. But if I was to be able to speak with Aaron about his book that would need to change. So why not try?

Months went by and, as my wife will tell you, I don’t come to sleep early so I filled those times, intentionally, with the Examen. This process had me getting into parts of me that I’m still today working on and, through Christ, reforming and hopefully turning into a better human that I was yesterday and the years prior. I find the struggle and angst in my own being. I find facets of Jesus that I had never seen prior—both in God and in myself. As the weeks fade, it is finally time. Fire up the laptop, hit record, dial-up Aaron, and after the usual “can you hear me?” and sound checks ask him if he’s ready to go? The answer was yes but with a caveat.

Slight Changes:

June:

Times up. Time to rock and roll and work through this hour, all the while desperate to not make a fool of myself—a constant fear, in the discussion of God and the current of life, as we are called to join into the presence and peace of God. The difference this time, though, is me.

So the reason this conversation has helped foster some change in me:

Aaron asked me some questions: “How are you? What is God doing in your life through this? How is this podcast changing you? How has the book sat with you?” Honestly it took me aback…usually I’m the one asking the questions and I felt bare. But honestly I needed that and I think I was, and am, at a point I was healthy enough to answer that question.

Fast forward 20 minutes and I realized something in me had shifted. Community was happening in real time between a man I’ve never actually met as we spoke with conviction about how God was working in our lives. I was ready to talk about what I was ready to talk about but Aaron slowed me down.

This conversation and the practices from the book that fostered it have helped me slow down and see the patterns in life that I need to flow in too. To find grace where before I saw annoyance, to find compassion where before I saw rigidity; and it stems from slowing down.

If you’ve not heard this episode before you can find it on iTunes and right here: