Note: Can I Say This at Church is produced for audio listening and is transcribed from Patreon version of the conversation. If able, I strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which has inflection, emotion, sarcasm where applicable, and emphasis for points that may not come across well in written word. This transcript is generated using a combination of my ears and software, and may contain errors. Please check the episode for clarity before quoting in print.
Amber Cantorna 0:01
I think the thing is a lot of LGBT people, sometimes they feel cornered, like it's like it's their job to go and advocate for themselves. And they shouldn't have to do that, right. Like, that's exhausting to have to defend your existence all the time and it's in a safe space. It's, it's traumatizing. So we really need the allies to step up and to have those conversations. I think often stories are a great way to go. That's a lot of what I've done with with my story is go into those spaces and share my story. I feel like it's not until you really know somebody that personally identifies that way, whether it's your you know, you suddenly have a brother or a cousin or aunt or somebody that comes out, you know, oh, something that you thought was way out here, as those people you know, suddenly is right in here and your very own family, it's somebody that you love, it's very care about, and suddenly your perspective shifts, right, because you know, that person you care about that person. And so I think having conversations around stories like that really make a difference. I don't think it's people argue theology a lot, but I think it's really stories that change hearts
Unknown Speaker 1:17
church would have done
Seth Price 1:25
we are all very, very good at pointing fingers, aren't we? I am. I know I am. We create little sub pockets of humans that are better than other humans, we other people. So So, so quickly. We make people feel shameful and guilty about things that often I don't think we need to one of those things is their gender and their sexuality. Now, I'm aware that there are many, many articles and fundamentalist evangelicals that would say, Seth, you are ridiculous. This, that and the other and I'm here to tell you, I don't care. I do not care. I am thankful though, for people like Amber can torna So Amber came on the show, she has created something called the Unashamed love collective. It's a group that you'll hear her describe kind of its purpose and what it does and I think spaces like the Unashamed low collective should should exist need to exist and they take intentionality and that's what I'm so thankful about with Amber. So that's it I wanted to get into this one quickly. So here we go
Unknown Speaker 2:41
guess then on church but there is hope. somewhere to go someone to feed and who if not bringers of some justice sweet My name
Seth Price 3:35
is Amber can torna and I've been terrified all day that I'm gonna say that wrong. That's right. It's
Amber Cantorna 3:42
a lot. It's okay.
Seth Price 3:43
It was that right? Yeah, that's right. Can we did it y'all can't see because I'm not going to do the video this week, y'all, but I'm excited about that. So anyway, I have joined you tonight or you have joined me on the internet tonight because that's the world that we live with each other. Absolutely. Yeah, that's this is now a holy space because two or more are gathered for gathered together 566 If you count the animals so Anyway, welcome to the show. And Glenn, if you're listening, I don't think he listens. I think whatever doesn't matter. Thanks for putting us together. And again, sorry for my delinquency and getting back with you. But for those that are listening in, they're going okay. So I saw the show notes. What is an amber who is an amber, what what do you say to that?
Amber Cantorna 4:33
I am an amber. I am such a such thing. I am an author. I am a speaker. I work primarily at the intersections of LGBTQ identities and faith. Helping LGBT people navigate the coming out process, mainly those that come from conservative evangelical backgrounds, because that was my background and my story and so it's played a significant role in my life. And I have therefore had a passion for for helping others kind of walk that same journey.
Seth Price 5:09
Yeah. So in, say, two minutes, because I did YouTube you is that? Can you use that as a verb? Is you anyway. Um, and and I listened to bits and pieces of your story because I normally read whatever we're going to talk about, so that I can form questions that hopefully no one else asks, because that's more fun. But I haven't done that, because we haven't. I haven't read anything for this conversation. So it's as freeform as it can be. Can you give a bit of that backstory as you feel like it's relevant to some of what you're doing now? And what you're on to talk about tonight? Like, why did those two make sense for you to do?
Amber Cantorna 5:50
Sure. So I grew up in a very conservative evangelical environment. My father has been in a very high powered position at Focus on the Family for over
Seth Price 6:01
30 years. Stops and right. James Dobson focus on yeah, pretty close. Pretty close. No, no, not you're dead. But that's, that's that ministry.
Amber Cantorna 6:09
Yeah. But yeah. But Dobson is the leader of the family. So I was actually, I was born in Montana. But by the time I was three, we had relocated to Southern California, where Focus on the Family was starting up. And then when they moved and kind of transplanted themselves to Colorado Springs, my family moved with them. And so we came and put down roots in Colorado, which, for anybody that kind of grew up in the evangelical realm knows, is like this epicenter for evangelical ministries, you know, we've got Focus on the Family, we've got compassion, we've got the navigators, we've got New Life church, it's just like this hub for all these evangelical ministries. So that was the culture that I grew up in. And I was homeschooled, and I was raised very much in the heart of purity culture. And that really informed my understanding of the world and myself and faith until I was in my early 20s, and realized I was gay. Which came at that like much later time in life, right because of purity culture, in which you you didn't date and you didn't. And you I was homeschooled. So I wasn't even like around other people a whole lot that like, like he would be in a high school setting where you're engaging in, in different relationships and kind of learning and growing, as one should, during that time in life. And so I really didn't have any of that exposure to any diversity of any kind. And so it took me until I was in my early 20s, to start realizing that I was gay, because I had no vocabulary to put to my experience. And when I did come out, it went exactly as you would have expected it to for the daughter of a focus on the family. employee. Yeah, embraces
Seth Price 8:00
all over prodigal daughter returns just fattened calf out
Amber Cantorna 8:07
on high, yes, that. No, they, I mean, they compared me to murderers and pedophiles and took away my keys from their house. And so they felt like it.
Seth Price 8:18
But you know, where they hide it? Right? Because you're still in the family? Maybe, maybe they hide it in a different spot. I know where my mom hides the key. If she she disowned me, so I can stop anyway. Doesn't matter. I am. Yeah. So I got about that far in to you talking about your story on a few of the videos that I watched. Then I got angry. And I turned it off. And I didn't go back into it. And I'm aware that you've written a book about that as well. I almost bought it. And then I didn't want to get angry. And because I've read four or five stories like that, the most recent book would have been out love by Yeah. Who have also had on the show, but yeah, I just I want to I think I want to go back in story. Yeah, I just I think I want to go back into regular theology books. That that that don't have any personal stories in them and just get mad at Calvin and Jacob Arminius you just get mad at random people.
Amber Cantorna 9:18
You get x she's great at that. Who got the ball duck? Who's that? Cry? Oh, you Oh, you need to know Kathy ball. Cathy with a see Kathy with a K with a K with a K. Bolt. done incredible research on behalf of LGBT people. Especially as it relates to faith and history and from all different perspectives of medical and psychological and cultural history that have like brought us to where we are in this time and especially as it relates to evangelical history.
Seth Price 9:50
Interesting. Yes, I will. 100 Yes. So if so, say someone was listening. And one or two things happen either they knew that they were going to transcribe that in an episode. They're like, Wait, Kathy who with a K? How do you spell that last name?
Amber Cantorna 10:04
Bal D O ck, not how
Seth Price 10:07
I spelled it. But no, I will
Amber Cantorna 10:11
look her up because she is doing incredible work right now that uncovers like, what word homosexuality got in the Bible in the first place? Because actually, until 1946,
Seth Price 10:22
yeah, your grandparents are older than that word being in the Bible, if you're listening, so that you start realizing
Amber Cantorna 10:27
that you start unraveling a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. Because you have this assumption that it's always been there. And it's not at all true.
Seth Price 10:34
It's fun when I am, I had that conversation sometimes at work when people realize that I'm good at money. And I've enjoyed theology, those are my, those are my two things. And we'll have conversations like you know, after work, or they'll call me on the phone or whatever. And, and we'll go round around and the amount of education or literacy of the way that the Bible became the Bible, or really, I think any religious text is. So it's, it's disheartening, but it takes a lot of work. And most people I think, would rather not do the work. That's okay. So you were doing a new thing. And I think dropping Kathy's name in there kind of makes sense for what you're doing. So you have a community that I cheated and listen to 10 to 15 minutes of Glenn's episode. You like you called it a COVID? Baby or a COVID? Like, incubated like idea or something? Yeah. So it's not a book? Correct? It's not, it's not something you have to read. So there's no homework, then? None of that? Don't have to worry about any of that. Right? What what are you doing?
Amber Cantorna 11:39
It can't be homework, but it depends on how you decide to engage. So what
Seth Price 11:43
are you doing? What is it?
Amber Cantorna 11:47
So I, my pandemic, baby was what has now become the Unashamed lunch collective, and a online group gathering of kind of spiritual nomads, people in deconstruction people who are coming out people who are asking questions about life and face and trying to understand all the things right and just need a place to ask hard questions. And so it's become this beautiful group of people that gather online, and we do read a different book every month to kind of help expand our understanding of ourselves in the world and faith. Many of them are by LGBT authors or allies. But we're kind of expanding at this point to even include other faiths and other perspectives. And then we we dialogue about that content throughout the month, we have a meeting at the end of every month, virtually, where we gather together and discuss it. And then we host a live interview with the author of our book, which is pretty cool. Had some great authors on there, and some great discussions. But it's also become so much more than just just that it's become this community to save space for people to, to explore topics, to ask hard questions, and to do it in a safe space where, you know, it's private, so people don't know that you're in this group, you you it's a paid membership. So it keeps the trolls away. And, and people don't know that you're in there, it's nobody can see. And so it's it's a safe space to come in, you know, talk about the hard things of life. And I think one of the things I love most about it is just seeing how people really rally around one another, and really show up for one another in the midst of all of the hard things of life, you know, and so it's just really been a beautiful thing to see.
Seth Price 13:35
Yeah. Yeah. Let me restate part of what you said in there and then ask a very sarcastic sorry, that's not how you say that word. A very sarcastic question, but a serious one. So what you described is a group of people struggling about God and needing a safe place to talk about it. And it apparently is not the institutional church that they were raised in. Well, how did we get here?
Amber Cantorna 14:03
I've had a lot of people kind of compare it to, to being church like church ish, you know, because that's kind of what it sounds like. And but yet for people inside the group, they're saying like, this is what church supposed to be.
Seth Price 14:18
Yes. What I mean, yeah, like, like, how did we How did we get so far away from from what should be I'm gonna steal something that I know Barbara brown Taylor has written because I've written it down that she did, it just can't find the book about like, you know, when I'm struggling with my faith, I hand it off to you because we're in community together. And I don't have to worry about it for a while. And when I'm ready and healthy to come back. I'll pick it back up. Or maybe, maybe, you know, I just lay that cross down for a while. Let that part die, find some new energy and move forward. But what why do you think that? Not that that is shouldn't exist because I also have a small private group on Facebook. It is not paywalled behind anything, not that it shouldn't be or whatever, and I'm in there less frequently than I like. But it's a very similar space where I will kick you out, if you're in there. I don't want to see your blog posts, don't advertise in here, I'll kick you out. And it's just a spot to go in there and say, whatever the hell you want. Um, and I love that place. And I liked it. I feel like I tried to protect it. But why do you feel like the church got to a place that it's not there?
Amber Cantorna 15:27
Well, I think the churches and institutions become too political, right? And too divisive. And, but the reality is that we need one another. And that's why people keep coming back. And they keep searching for these places in these communities. And, you know, we, this community is, does have a membership base to it. So it's $30 a month to be a part of, but like I said, I love that because it helps people to engage. And it helps us stay up and running to pay our author fees and our speaker fees for people to come in and talk to us. And then we also offer other things like a mid month Hangout, where you just get together and hang out online and play games or get to know one another, whatever. In fact, that's happening tonight, I think. And so we've got some volunteers to help lead some of those things. And, and, you know, being able to raise up some volunteers within this community that makes them feel like they have ownership and belonging in this space. And we've been able to launch our own website and do different things. And, and I love that, you know, it does keep the trolls out, because the trolls don't want to pay to, you know, so, you know, it creates some safe space. And, and I love that I love the way that people show up for one another, I think, I think at the core, that is it, we need one another, we need people, we need that safe haven. And I love watching people engage in that space.
Seth Price 16:57
Yeah, so you've been making it then since 2019 2020, or 20. Yeah. So thinking back over the last year and a half, depending on when in 2020, what has been a couple of the big changes for you, like where you're in a different spot than you were in then, because of the community that that has been fostered there.
Amber Cantorna 17:19
You know, I think, um, I mean, it's, it's even, even though I'm the leader of the group, it's become kind of a safe space, even for me, you know, and it's, it's forced me to also to learn and to grow, because I'm researching books each season. So we only, we only open it to new members twice a year. And we do that intentionally to be able to keep this community tight knit. So you don't feel like you have this constant flux of people coming and going, right? Because it's, it's hard to feel safe when there's this constant flux of people. And so you commit for a season, which is six months. And that way, we really kind of can cultivate that community. And so for me to as the leader, then I'm always researching these new things, these new ideas, these new topics of ways that we can learn and grow and expand, and kind of go to the next place. And so it's it's really easy to, to explore and to expand my own understandings and to try and lead them well in in that process. And so, I love that also, you know, I love the ways that it's pushing me to grow as a person as well.
Seth Price 18:24
So right before I got on with you, I went to your website, just to see what was on your blog, because why not? And I saw Darren on there. Then I like Darrin. Darrin Catherine. Yeah. Um, talk to me a bit about what y'all talked about. Just from the title and a little bit that I read. I was like, yes, Darren's the man. I've had him on the show a couple times. Last time we talked about soul, which is, you know, I love Darrin so much.
Amber Cantorna 18:52
Yeah, love. Actually hasn't happened yet. It's happening tomorrow night. What?
Seth Price 18:57
See, I don't know how to read. Oh, no, that's great.
Amber Cantorna 18:59
I mean, it'll, it'll, it will have happened by the time you post this. I just can't tell you what we've talked about yet, because I have. So but yeah, so once a quarter we open, we do an event that's open to the public. That is not just for our use of members, but that other people in the general public can engage in as well. And so we do kind of we try to engage in different topics of social justice. So we've done stuff around like mental health and boundaries. We've done stuff around the harms of conversion therapy. The one tomorrow night is on ally ship and anti racism. And then later this coming season, we'll also have one on like the harms of purity culture and how to heal from you know, sexual trauma and abuse with Dr. Tina Shermer sellers, who's also fantastic. Oh, so I love being able to engage in those conversations as well, right? It's, it's always insightful. It's always learning and growing. And I'm sure as you know, with the interviews that you do, like each person brings their own spin and their own taste to the conversation. And I love that. Some people are super chill and laid back. And some people just are super, super insightful and going at it all the time. And I just I love the personalities of each person that comes on.
Seth Price 20:18
I would agree with that. Yeah. What my wife does not like about the amount of interviews that I do is the volumes of books that I that I, like, there's literally I don't know, there's 40 over there on the floor. There's what's behind. I can't help myself. Um, but I don't know, I can't. Yeah, you
Amber Cantorna 20:37
just have your own library going, I know, I'd have mine. Well, she
Seth Price 20:40
told me to give some away. And I was like, What? No, you don't? It's not what you do. So I gave some to the church. But then I couldn't get them back. Because they're like in the church library now. Which part of me because of the topics that I'm touching? I feel subversive by putting those in the church library. I don't know that anybody even knows that we have a church library.
Amber Cantorna 21:01
Yes, slipped in there. Yeah.
Seth Price 21:03
So I joined the group. And it's a safe space, I'm in there for six months. What? Are there any off limit questions? Like? Can I just what is? What are the rules?
Amber Cantorna 21:18
Yeah, I mean, in terms of the people that are in there, I would say the majority of them are coming from some kind of conservative faith background, you know, or deconstructing evangelicalism or some other form of conservative faith. Not all of them, we do have some people that identify as atheist or agnostic or Muslim or, you know, Jewish, was, so we've got some diversity there. But I would say the majority of them are kind of in this deconstruction process. And so it's, it's meant to be a safe space to ask the questions. But I also do, you know, kind of monitor it, we've never had a problem. I think just because of the kind of people that it attracts. It's never we've never had a problem with people causing, you know, divisiveness. But I do monitor those kind of things. And those kind of questions and, and, really, it's what you get out of it is what you put into it. Like some people really love to engage online into discussion questions and really love some people love showing up for the mid month Hangouts. Some people love you know, they can't make it live. Because not everybody can make it live to our monthly gatherings, you know, where we span coast to coast and a few from around the world. And
Seth Price 22:35
when you say live, you mean like in person outside, in Colorado city, virtually a block away
Amber Cantorna 22:40
from the last Monday of every month? Yeah, originally online, but because we span, you know, four time zones. And people can make it to that live, and some people can't. And so we always record it and post it in the group there. And people some people watch it there. Some people never really engage in the discussions at all, but they just love reading the books and hearing the author interviews and, or doing it some people do it with their spouse and joint together and they love engaging that way, you know, or their partner and, and so everybody kind of has their own spin to it and how they engage that space. And that's what I love about it is you can engage in whatever way works best for you to get the benefit from it. Yeah. Can I ask orientation and get their feet wet know how to best get the get as much as they can for their membership? Yeah,
Seth Price 23:33
um, yeah. Can I ask a few vague questions for someone? Because I've been there. I don't know that I'm there anymore. But I was there, where I was sitting in church, knowing that statistically, people in the church are going to be LGBTQ, just statistically. Somebody says, definitely somebody's lying, if everybody says is, it's just not somebody lying. Right? Yeah. Anyway, so how does one adequately begin to bring those conversations up in their faith bodies in a way that opens that up in a non confrontational way? Because it's, I think it's hard for a lot of people to lose a community or lose a person. It's it's a hard spot to pick and I don't think that the church is still in a way that it should be that you can just bring that up. Not every church, there are some churches that are intentionally, you know, protecting that space. But a lot of the listeners, I don't think that that's the case if they still even go to church.
Amber Cantorna 24:43
Yeah, well, I think I think a lot of our members in the collective, whether they're LGBT or allies are there because they have left the church or they've been kicked out of their church and they stay on for some kind of community and So this is like kind of an a new way of doing that a new way of doing community, and hopefully a safe one where everybody feels like they belong. Yeah, I think that's what the church is meant to be. And not all of the churches are willing to have those hard conversations, unfortunately. And I think that it's not for lack of need, because like I said that the numbers are there, the statistics are there. But again, I think a lot of it goes back to politics and giving tithing and what's, you know, what will this do to their numbers? I mean, I've literally sat in a room of evangelical pastors, and had them look at me and say, like, if we come out as affirming this is gonna cost me my job, or my money, or my, you know, and I'm like, yeah, it's costing us our lives and our life, like, the price is high.
Seth Price 25:58
Yeah. So what does someone like me that wants to do better? What do we do stand up in a business meeting? And say, we need to do something here? Like, how do you begin with your experience? If someone was listening, like, we do need to do better? Where do you start?
Amber Cantorna 26:16
Yeah, I think it starts by having conversations.
Seth Price 26:19
Or with with, with whom?
Amber Cantorna 26:22
With Yeah, I mean, if you are an ally, I think the thing is a lot of LGBT people, sometimes they feel cornered, like it's like, it's their job to go and advocate for themselves. And they shouldn't have to do that, right. Like, that's exhausting to have to defend your existence all the time. And it's in a safe space. It's, it's traumatizing. So we really need the allies to step up and to have those conversations. I think often stories are a great way to go. That's a lot of what I've done with with my story is go into those spaces and share my story. I feel like it's not until you really know somebody that personally identifies that way, whether it's your you know, you suddenly have a brother or a cousin or an aunt or somebody that comes out, you know, oh, something that you thought was way out here, as those people, you know, suddenly is right in here and your very own family and somebody that you love and somebody care about, and suddenly your perspective shifts, right, because you know, that person you care about that person. And so I think having conversations around stories like that really make a difference. I don't think it's people argue theology a lot. But I think it's really stories that change hearts and minds.
Seth Price 27:32
I think that's 100%. True. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Amber Cantorna 27:35
And so sharing stories, having conversations about stories, I think, is really what has the power to kind of shift the conversation.
Unknown Speaker 27:45
If God has a phase, or phase mas, like you.
Seth Price 28:02
Do you remember like last year, I had all those weird ad breaks, like it would just randomly be something, we're not doing that instead, I thought I'd do this, I need your help. If you're able to head on over to the website for the show, there are two things that you can do. One is you head over the website, you click the Patreon button or support button, I forget what I call it, and you jump in there, those people help make this show a thing so that you can listen to it right now, to the easier one, you could just leave a rating and a review on the podcast app of choice that you currently use. Either one of those is fine. But I would love it if you would do either one, specifically the rating and reviewing it's an exponential thing, that the algorithms pick it up. And that's just math. It's just compounding on top of itself. Anyway, all that to say that was it. That was the ad break. And now we're going to get back into it.
So say COVID is birthing other projects for the church, not necessarily for you, Amber and for the community that you're building. Say it's breaking things or or just stating new things. Lots of big words tonight for some reason. Yeah, I also use masticate with my six year old earlier and she asked what it meant. And I told her and she did this. Like why did you not just say but I was you know, we were doing British accents and it sounded good in a British accent. So say that the pandemic has forced, one of the things my pastor said before, like pastors are just in hospice care for churches because the church is just slowly dying. But with death, always
Amber Cantorna 29:57
accelerating that Yeah, yeah, so sad.
Seth Price 30:01
Say, the parts of the church that refuse to change, lose power, because of either the ability to pay for things or the inability for people in a different age demographic or socio political or more gender, or whatever that is says, now we're done with your BS, and we're doing a new thing. And you could remake the thing and be a voice in that. What is the one or two things with a magic wand that you're like? Yeah, this and this does not exist in this community? Like, what is that? Is that? Is that purity? Culture? Is it this is it? What is it that you have built? Yeah, if we're going to rebuild faith bodies in the West, because we don't live everywhere, and and help to remove the things that cause shame, and trauma and guilt? What would that look like? So that my six year old kids, six year olds, kids, possibly are in a much healthier place? 2530 years from now, what would the what would be the thing that needs to be erased?
Amber Cantorna 31:01
Well, I think it'd be more than one thing. If I could flip it the opposite and say what it would be for the way I would say it would be for diversity and inclusion and celebrating that celebrate diversity and you celebrate inclusion, then that covers everybody, right? That covers all the marginalized identities of not just LGBT, but of people of color, and people who are disabled and people who are all these different, smaller groups of marginalized identities are suddenly celebrated. If you include diversity and inclusion, as kind of your overarching you know, whatever you call it, whether it's your, your mantra, your, you know, your, your, like, the kind of the rainbow over your church, you know, like, all the things have a space here. I think that would really shift. A lot of the division that we're that we're seeing take place. Suddenly everybody has a home.
Seth Price 32:06
Yeah. See? Yeah, yeah, I like that. Um, I don't want to say this question. I don't know. I want to say this question. So, yeah, I do know, I don't, I'm gonna leave it alone, because I'm not sure how to say it. Um, how? How many people are in the community? Like, what could someone expect? I jump in, and there's like, 190,000, like, 150 people, and I like, I'm just thinking information overload, like, just for those listening, like, yeah, I can get 50. Okay.
Amber Cantorna 32:41
Yeah, yeah, let's nice and tight, it's small, it's enough to really get to know people on a personal level, to really build it to build real intentional connections. I would like for it to grow a little bit. So that, because we're getting to the point where people are starting to be able to, like, locate those in their area in there, you know, so it's like, oh, you live in Florida, while so and so also lives within this region, you know, and so you're spending little pockets of people that can actually, like, physically meet up in real life, which is real thing. And people have even done that across the country. Like we've had somebody from Florida that drove to Ohio to go to some buddy's wedding, and some California that ended up knowing somebody in this little bitty town in Texas, somebody Yeah. And like they're making connections and, and that's been really a beautiful thing to watch. And so I feel like right now, we're just at this kind of really cozy size where you can really, intentionally build community, but we're also brainstorming for ways that as we grow, we continue to keep that tight knit community feel through doing stuff and regions and that kind of thing as well.
Seth Price 33:49
Yeah, no, that's good. I like I like that. And I will say the world especially America is entirely small. Like, um, I've had people on the show that their brother is a pastor in the city that I work in, and I'm like, Yeah, which church? What? Church? Yeah, I still get to go and meet the man because I'm lazy. So, um, so just a couple final questions, just to I like to end with existential questions. Yeah, one of which I think will be easier. Do what?
Amber Cantorna 34:21
It's a little late at night for that. Oh, no. Well, you're
Seth Price 34:23
in a different time zone. Right. Aren't you? Like two hours behind me? No, no, no. Where are you at? I thought you were in a different time zone for some reason. Yes. Oh, lie to me.
Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, no, I'm having a conversation with a person in a different country tomorrow. Where I will talk to them on Thursday and it will be Friday afternoon for them. Which is the world works in a weird like it's just for something in my head is that's I will talk to you today but tomorrow we're we're raking time. Anyway. So what? You've already answered this question, but I'd like to hear like real specifics. One of the questions, there's two questions that I asked everyone, one of which is, I need something that people of faith should be vocal about in their faith bodies. And if they don't, it will literally be a hand grenade that everybody just watches tick until explodes the pews. What is that thing? It's one thing.
Amber Cantorna 35:33
I think we're seeing that right now with the LGBTQ movement. Because the generations below us, like our age, you know, like, the generations underneath us are not tolerating that church is not accepting of their friends, whether they're LGBT or not, they're that the church is pushing their friends away. And they don't want anything to do with that. And so they just are becoming part of the nuns or you know, people that just aren't affiliated with church, because they don't want to be a part of an institution that doesn't accept their friends for who they are. And so we're seeing that already kind of starting to die off in the generations that are coming up with the nurse.
Seth Price 36:13
Yeah, yeah, I am. Just a just a small aside, but it's something I'm really proud of, of that our church did. So a couple years ago. We have a youth in our in our congregation that is LGBTQ. And so on a Sunday night when normally, you know, we'd have someone else come in and do the thing. She brought the message. And it was freaking amazing. Like, it was so good. And I thought the church was going because we have never voted on being affirming. Which really bothers me, I believe is actually was on the table, and then COVID shut everything down. And then now the business means you're like, well, what's the budget now? Yeah, what's the budget net? You know that. So that's the business. Yes. Is it so we go to a cooperative Baptist Church here in Virginia. But I thought the church was going to lose their mind. And I was ready for like, I was ready to be like, Absolutely not. You shut up. Absolutely not. And that is not I was totally surprised. Anyway, yeah. So just that your what you said made me think of that where I was like, Absolutely, um, though, we screw up all the time, as well. But it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen to see a 17 year old woman. Yeah, doing the thing, because he was amazed. Yeah, it was amazing.
Amber Cantorna 37:30
Well, the thing is that LGBT people bring such a unique perspective on the church, and bring such just beauty and diversity that you don't otherwise see. I think that if we could celebrate that, it would just enhance all of our perspectives of what to body is meant to be and what faith is really all about.
Seth Price 37:50
Yeah, well, not just LGBT people as well, like, immigrants when they come to your church. I agree. Yes. Because yeah, or I don't know, somebody that doesn't happen to be white. You know, someone that someone speaks English as their third language, because they dream in a different one. Like, yes, all of that matters. All of this. Yeah. Because I'm only good at English. Um, so when you try to wrap words around, whatever God is, what is that? That's the last hard one.
Amber Cantorna 38:21
Yeah. I think these days, I find I find God in places that are not church, most often. I find God in people. I find God in nature, I find. I would, I would say even sometimes I even pull away a bit from the word God and try to find other like, I feel like growing up in the evangelical world, you have certain terms or phrases that were just pounded into you. So it's like you almost need a fresh perspectives and fresh language around some of that. And so even things like the divine or mystery or some of that has been really intriguing to me to find some new language around. Even around faith and around God and spirituality. But yeah, I love all those things. But I think that there's a lot to be learned from, from other people and even from other cultures and other belief systems. I think we all have so much that we can learn and glean from one another and but I think there's so much beauty in that. Which beauty and beauty.
Seth Price 39:42
Yeah, yeah, that is the final question, by the way, but that is actually my favorite question of every single episode. Because the answers don't really repeat. Ever. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, I like it.
Unknown Speaker 39:54
Yeah, I love that.
Seth Price 39:55
So being that I am not in your community. I have not a I'm not in in in that group, I'm going to ask a question, but I'm going to frame it through the lens that I have heard you say tonight. And so, as humans, we belong together. And if we're all an image of God and are the divine, and that is not a one thing, we need each other. And the world has told us lately that we can't touch each other, talk to each other, look at each other. All we do is talk at each other, not with each other. And so I would encourage people that need a safe space to jump into Amber's, if anything, because I did vet the group. The testimonials of the group are freaking amazing. And so if that is you, Amber, where do they go? And you've also written books, and people can do that. So whatever that is, but where do people go? Because honestly, I think that community to be yourself is more important than a book. So people can people can buy a book, you can, whatever you want, doesn't matter.
Amber Cantorna 41:02
Yeah, no, I mean, you can buy the book, you can do the thing. But if you're gonna do anything, like Come be a part of our community, like you won't regret it, it is a freaking amazing group of people. And so registration is open now through the 28th of February. So just for about a week or so. And we only open it twice a year. So this is like your, your moment to jump on. And you can do that by going to our website. unashamed love, collective but calm. And then there's a registration tab on there and get all the info, all the questions, all the things are on there. Once you sign up, you'll be rerouted to a brief survey that will link you into our private Facebook group. Our season will our season lunch will be March March 1.
Seth Price 41:50
Excellent. And then are there What about resources for someone that just got a smartphone on March 1 and realize that podcasts are a thing? They listen? And they're like, Man, I missed the cut off? What are some resources for those folks like myself that if it was not for the last moment, nothing would ever get done? Where would you point those,
Amber Cantorna 42:10
you know, I would go to the resource tab on my website, personal website, Amber can torna that comm I've got several tabs on there that have a number of great resources for people that are deconstructing or coming out, or asking questions about LGBT inclusion and faith topics. I've got a number of organizational resources, I've got a number of books, reading resources, some audio podcast lists on there, some videos, it's kind of a great combination of springboards to help get you to that next thing. Yeah, so yeah, I would check out the resource title. Yeah,
Seth Price 42:48
I just wanted to ask, cuz I know, just the way that I listened to shows, I think, you know, I just want to make sure everyone, what am I sure everyone has.
Amber Cantorna 42:56
And if you if you listen to this on March 1, and you are desperate to be part of this, email me and maybe I can
Seth Price 43:02
slide you under the door, you know, you know, somebody that
Amber Cantorna 43:05
I know, somebody that can maybe maybe that one too.
Seth Price 43:10
For enough. And Brian, um, I've enjoyed talking with you. Great. Yeah, thank you.
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